Timeline for "Someone was refreshingly honest when [...]": is the adverb an obfuscated adjunct?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
24 events
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| Oct 2, 2020 at 23:02 | answer | added | Chris | timeline score: 2 | |
| Apr 13, 2017 at 12:56 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://french.stackexchange.com/ with https://french.stackexchange.com/
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| Dec 14, 2016 at 20:18 | answer | added | LawrenceC | timeline score: 0 | |
| Dec 14, 2016 at 17:37 | vote | accept | CommunityBot | ||
| Dec 14, 2016 at 13:51 | comment | added | Lambie | @Ange-à-Liberté - Fortunately, my colleague's mood is intrinsically bright. or Unfortunately, my colleague's attitude is dipsomaniacally skewed. [not on google, ha ha]. The party drinks were refreshingly different. | |
| Dec 14, 2016 at 12:40 | answer | added | TimR | timeline score: 2 | |
| Dec 13, 2016 at 22:49 | comment | added | user16335 | @Lambie Helpful, thks. I didn't mean concurrent as in at the same time but rather in different contexts for the same adverb i.e refreshingly as stance, refreshingly as manner, refreshingly as stance at the head of the sentence, or not, etc. It's possible I see also a more literal use (the potential to refresh) as another option which adds confusion to the cases. Maybe when refreshingly is split between the subjective part (pleasingly) and the attribute (new-fresh) I read it differently etc. I'm going to think further about sth like fortunately, my colleague's purse is refreshingly blue. | |
| Dec 13, 2016 at 22:04 | comment | added | Lambie | I am just saying that maybe since you are not a native speaker, this idea of refreshing which is not rafraîchissant in French except in cases of stuff like drinks or swimming or breezes, is "pas évident". But for an English speaker it works like so many other adverbs + adjectives. People and situations in French cannot be called "refreshing" but in English they can. And this adverb refreshingly is not a stance adverb really. It's like any other adverb of degree/manner: amazingly handsome, refreshingly honest, brutally honest, unnervingly honest all just reveal the speaker's attitude. | |
| Dec 13, 2016 at 21:56 | comment | added | Lambie | @Ange-à-Liberté I have no idea what you mean by: Is it possible to have a stance use independent of a manner use (concurrent). You either have one or the other. Here the adverb is with the adjective. It modifies the adjective. Not a truth statement or belief thing like an adverbial adjunct or stance adverb. | |
| Dec 13, 2016 at 20:31 | comment | added | user16335 | @Lambie You're on a learners site and I'm not a native speaker so of course I'm coming from somewhere but you're quite safe and I couldn't care less about translating, it was just a(n) (missed) opportunity to explore grammar, especially with respect to stance adverbs (thks Papa Poule), as opposed to manner etc.. Is the position of the former relevant to the meaning, as opposed to... ; is it possible to have a stance use independent of a manner use (concurrent); then context: does time, clause sequence, or phrase etc. construction, impact any of this? With refreshingly, amazingly.... | |
| Dec 13, 2016 at 17:37 | comment | added | Lambie | @Papa Poule Do you want my real opinion on this whole thing? I think there is language interference. In this case, from French. It is very annoying at times when a particular word calls for an entire workaround in the other language. This is the case with refreshing here in English. It's not easy to put into French. That does not mean that its existence in the source language is weird.This interference thing can go the other way, too. Par ailleurs, on peut très bien demandé un feedback à une collègue.... | |
| Dec 13, 2016 at 17:31 | comment | added | Papa Poule | @Lambie ...2/2... As for the “defect,” that's referring to the “[time-line] logical fallacy” I mentioned a few comments above. I put it in scare quotes in deference to your having politely pooh-poohed it.(Although irrelevant here, I also think your suggested translation on the French site contains this same “defect” (I would have said “Le feedback que j'ai eu/reçu de ma collègue…” instead of “ … demandé à ….”). Although such defects, if any, might not have anything to do with anything either here or there, they can muddy the waters and make parsing more difficult (at least for me). | |
| Dec 13, 2016 at 17:20 | comment | added | Papa Poule | @Lambie It’s probably just me, but when “amazingly” begins a sentence I usually take it to mean sense #1 ("In a way that causes great surprise or wonder"=”Amazingly/surprisingly [enough] [because/in spite of how ugly her brother is], she is beautiful) and sense #1.2 ("very; extremely") when it’s intensifying an adjective=”She is amazingly/very/extremely beautiful.” .... to be continued...1/2 | |
| Dec 13, 2016 at 14:25 | comment | added | Lambie | /He is amazingly handsome/ and /Amazingly, he is handsome/. Amazingly means the same thing in both but they qualify (modify) different things. I really do not know what you mean by defect. | |
| Dec 12, 2016 at 19:47 | comment | added | Papa Poule | Anyway, with this “defect” out of the way it’s easier for me to hazard an uneducated guess that “refreshingly” here is serving as an “Evaluation {Stance} Adverb” & that since “refreshingly” has only one basic meaning (“serving to refresh” & “pleasantly fresh & different” are close,imo) its position in the sentence would not change its meaning (unlike “amazingly” which has two distinct meanings [see also “exceptionally” which also has two distinct meanings, one of which would almost mean “refreshingly” when used at sentence’s start]). | |
| Dec 12, 2016 at 19:14 | comment | added | Lambie | I really do not think that a time line has anything to do with it. One could say: She is a refreshingly honest person. Same meaning re refreshingly honest. Nothing will change what "refreshingly honest" means regardless of whether the rest of the sentence is not very clear about when the person was being refreshingly honest. | |
| Dec 12, 2016 at 15:00 | comment | added | Papa Poule | I now see a logical fallacy in the time line of sentence 1 that might explain why this particular use of “adverb+adjective+when” makes my brain buzz too. Her refreshing honesty couldn’t have appeared when the request was made, but only when she provided it. There’s less buzzing in my brain w/“She was [being] refreshingly honest when responding/when she responded to my request for feedback” or “Refreshingly, she was [brutally] honest when providing feedback. Also, “She was very proud when I asked her for feedback” doesn’t buzz 'cause her pride could have logically surfaced at just being asked. | |
| Dec 12, 2016 at 14:36 | comment | added | Lambie | @Ange-à-Liberté Your sentences 1 and 2 mean essential same thing. /refreshingly honest/ and /It was refreshing to/: both reveal the speaker's attitude. And /It is amazing to see how handsome he is/ is also essentially similar to /He is amazingly handsome/. It + present continuous also reveals the speaker's attitude. But putting adverbs in either case at the head of the sentence with a comma changes the meaning completely. If you put the adverb at the beginning of the sentence, the meaning is different. refreshingly honest is no different from any adverb + adjective pair. | |
| Dec 11, 2016 at 5:55 | history | edited | user16335 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Tried to make it clearer and to cater further to the semantics, as hinted by the comments. Should be easier to understand where I'm coming from with this. Thanks.
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| Dec 10, 2016 at 23:15 | comment | added | user230 | Refreshingly honest here doesn't mean that the author's colleague is usually dishonest. It could just mean that people are usually reluctant to give the author direct criticism, so when the colleague was more direct, the author appreciated it. | |
| Dec 10, 2016 at 22:38 | history | edited | Jasper |
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| Dec 10, 2016 at 19:53 | comment | added | Lambie | My eyes are glazing over because you have too much stuff in your questions. I would simplify. There is a basic ambiguity in the sentence but it does not derive from /refreshingly honest/. The two readings are: Others are not usually honest OR: She was not always honest at other times. There is no way given just this context to decide which is intended. | |
| Dec 10, 2016 at 19:18 | comment | added | BillJ | This may help you link | |
| Dec 10, 2016 at 18:20 | history | asked | user16335 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |