Timeline for Simple Grammar Question about who noun clause
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
17 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Apr 14, 2018 at 19:31 | vote | accept | titansarus | ||
| Apr 14, 2018 at 18:28 | answer | added | BillJ | timeline score: 1 | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 18:12 | comment | added | BillJ | @titansarus OK, will do. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 18:12 | comment | added | titansarus | @BillJ So please submit the answer so I can choose it as the best answer. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 18:11 | comment | added | BillJ | No. it's not right. The OP has just made it 100% clear that they are all independent sentences, in which case 4 is ungrammatical. Wake up, Lambie! | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 18:09 | comment | added | Lambie | 4) is right also: I don't know that man over there who is eating a hot dog. after is there could be a multitude of things. It is fine. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 18:01 | comment | added | BillJ | @titansarus That's what I assumed. Yes, both 2 and 3 are right. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 17:58 | comment | added | titansarus | The question is an independent sentence and it is just designed to assess grammar and not special cases in context. So with this in mind, both 2 and 3 are right? | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 17:51 | comment | added | BillJ | If the OP's examples are complete sentences, which we have to assume since the OP says "the first sentence ...", then they are simple to parse. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 17:41 | comment | added | FumbleFingers | @Lambie: Indeed. Because OP's ellipsis is what we use for a "pregnant pause" when transcribing speech, we're naturally inclined to parse it as, say, *"I don't know..." she trailed off. "Who is that man over there?" | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 17:39 | comment | added | BillJ | The OP made it clear that they were sentences (thus not elements or fragments of larger sentences). As written, they are all subordinate interrogatives, grammatical or otherwise. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 17:32 | comment | added | Lambie | The first one is the question form. And I did end up writing out examples. As you can see, this is not a simple question, in fact. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 17:17 | comment | added | Lambie | "Who is that man over there?"//" I told him who that man over there is but he didn't believe me."//"Who that man is over there is a matter of debate".//"That man over there who is eating a hot dog is not a nice man".// They all work. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 17:16 | comment | added | BillJ | Only 2. and 3. are OK, where "who that man over there is" / "who that man is over there" are subordinate interrogative clauses (embedded questions). Such clauses do not have subject-auxiliary inversion, so 1. is ungrammatical. The meaning is "I don't know the answer to the question 'Who is that man over there?'". And 3. is just gibberish, as FF says. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 17:07 | comment | added | Lambie | Noun clauses need context, like a full sentence. All those could be used in a conceivable universe when speaking but I am not going to write out a real sentence for you for each one. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 16:57 | comment | added | FumbleFingers | #1 is typical of non-native speakers, but wouldn't often be used by the natives (it's essentially a question in its own right, without preceding I don't know...). #2 and #3 are both fine (though in practice #2 is probably much more likely in most contexts). And #4 is just seriously ungrammatical gibberish. | |
| Apr 14, 2018 at 16:37 | history | asked | titansarus | CC BY-SA 3.0 |