Timeline for what does the author (Mario Puzo) mean by the following sentence?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
18 events
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| Oct 25, 2021 at 15:25 | comment | added | David Siegel | @Flater I am afraid we must agree to disagree. "There is nothing better than A, except B" is subtly but significantly different in meaning from "There is nothing better than A, unless it is B" | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 15:23 | comment | added | David Siegel | @Flater To be clear, i am not asserting that 'unless" always indicates uncertainty. It often does not. But in some cases it does, and i am convinced that this is the case in the Pujo sentence. | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 15:22 | comment | added | Flater | @DavidSiegel: There are other definitions of "unless" but that does not mean that it inherently cannot be known which definition is being used in this particular example. The quote provided by OP does not convey uncertainty, it conveys an exception. It boils down to "There is nothing better than A, except B". B is the best, A is second best. That is what the sentence conveys. | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 15:19 | comment | added | David Siegel | @Flater "Unless" like many words, can be used in several ways. Yes, in the sentence about windows, it is listing an exception, and there is no uncertainty indicated. But consider the 3rd example sentence the def you link. It starts with "Unless I'm mistaken" The speaker is unsure if s/he is correct (albeit not very unsure) or the 4th "He hasn't got any hobbies—unless you call watching TV a hobby." It could be put that the speaker is unsure if watching TV is a hobby. Neithre of these is quite like the example from Pujo, and there are other senses of "unless". | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 15:17 | comment | added | Flater | [..] The latter uncertainty is an incorrect reading of the example sentence provided. The former uncertainty is a correct reading, but when applied to OP's quote, is irrelevant to the meaning that is being conveyed. The quote provided by OP is only interested in making a generalized statement that B is greater than A (and that A and B together are the greatest advantages). It is not interested in stating that a particular advantage might be A or might be B. | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 15:09 | comment | added | Flater | @DavidSiegel: I mean, it's literally in the dictionary: "used to give the only situation in which something will not happen or be true". While this often adds an uncertainty, that is not inherently the case. The first example (I sleep with the window open unless it's really cold) is in no way uncertain that the window will not be open when it is cold. You're confusing the uncertainty that it will be cold (on a given night) with the uncertainty that the speaker might sleep with the windows open on a cold night. | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 15:05 | comment | added | David Siegel | @Flater I am sorry, But I am convinced you are mistaken here. "There is nothing better than A, unless it is B". is saying that either A or B is best, but is not asserting that B is better than A. It could be rephrased using "perhaps" or "maybe" and the meaning would be unchanged. "There is nothing better than A, or maybe B" carries the same meaning. I have seen this use of "unless" on quite a few occasions, but mostly in older works, or in historical fiction, imitating the speech of an earlier time. But I believe that it is still valid, although perhaps less common than it once was. [...] | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 14:46 | comment | added | Flater | @DavidSiegel: "A is best, unless B is" is not the same as "There is nothing better than A, unless it is B". The former questions whether B is better, whereas the latter does not. The latter states definitively that B is better than A. The only arguable uncertainty is whether "it" is A, B, or neither; but that's actually besides the point the author is making here. "The medal you're going to give me could not be better than silver, unless it is gold" is uncertain about what medal you're going to give me, but it is definitively stating that gold is better than silver. | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 14:27 | comment | added | David Siegel | @Flater "Unless" can be used in that way, to state an exception. But that is not how it is being used here. "A is best, unless B is" says that either A or B is best, but the speaker is not sure which. That is the way "unless" is being used here. A similar meaning could be expressed with "perhaps" but that is not the only way to show uncertainty. The statements in your comment do not follow this pattern. Consider "I will go walking, unless I decide to fish". The speaker is not sure what decision s/he will make, but it will be one of two choices. | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 9:36 | comment | added | Flater | "Unless" does not express uncertainty here. It overrides the previous statement by adding an exception. E.g. "I always get out of bed at 6 am, unless it is Sunday". This is a statement of fact. Compare this to "I should get up, unless it's Sunday". This is not a statement of fact, and does convey uncertainty. However, OP's quote is the former, i.e. an absolute statement of fact. 'Unless' is being used to add an exception to the earlier statement, not to introduce an uncertainty. Uncertainty would be introduced by using "unless perhaps", where "perhaps" is the word indicating uncertaintly. | |
| Oct 25, 2021 at 9:31 | comment | added | Flater | "That the sentence starts with "He claimed" indicates that the narrator does not endorse this idea" Galileo claimed that the Earth orbits the sun. This statement does not imply that I disagree with Galileo. | |
| Jan 21, 2021 at 2:52 | comment | added | learnedlizard | thank you so much, cheers | |
| Jan 21, 2021 at 1:57 | comment | added | David Siegel | @learnedlizard "It" here means "natural advantage". Compare "There is nothing sweeter than chocolate unless it is ice cream". This says that either chocolate or ice cream is the sweetest thing, but the speaker isn't sure which. This use of it is part of a common pattern, and is worth its own question. | |
| Jan 21, 2021 at 1:36 | comment | added | learnedlizard | He claimed that there was no greater natural advantage in life than having an enemy overestimate your faults unless it was to have a friend underestimate your virtues. what do you think that 'it' is referring to? | |
| Jan 20, 2021 at 18:32 | history | edited | Ronald Sole | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 20, 2021 at 17:31 | comment | added | David Siegel | @learnedlizard The "unless" suggests uncertainty about which advantage is greater, but the Don says that the two are bigger than any others. | |
| Jan 20, 2021 at 17:29 | comment | added | learnedlizard | thank you for your thought out response. im wondering if he also meant, your friends underestimating your virtues is a greater advantage than your enemy overestimating your faults. | |
| Jan 20, 2021 at 17:21 | history | answered | David Siegel | CC BY-SA 4.0 |