Skip to main content
deleted 69 characters in body
Source Link
Alan Carmack
  • 12k
  • 2
  • 23
  • 52

Your book is wrong, and the first sentence is fine–except that there should be a determiner before the single count noun bribe.

What you are basically asking is: Can we use the present perfect in both the "since" clause and the independent clause in such a sentence as

The answer is yes, and I will show this with many real world examples written by native English speakers. Note that there should be a determiner such as a or one before the single count noun bribe.

The past action of the "since" clause is to join. Using the present perfect makes the past action of to join relevant to the moment of speaking. It refers to the whole duration or length of time between when the father first joined the club and right now, when the sentence is said. A person might want to use the present perfect to stress the fact thatrough paraphrase is

For instance, ifIf you were defending your father against someone who accusedhas accused him of taking a bribe, you might want to use the present perfect tense because of how it connects the past action with the present moment.

More examplesExamples:

David has been invaluable since he's joined our unit.

Michael has done nothing but help us since he's joined us, and you can trust him ...

Note that he's unreliable is a contraction of he is unreliable while he's joined up is a contraction of he has joined up. Every use of he's joined in these examples is a contraction of He has joined.

Well, ESPN's "SportsCenter" anchor Stuart Scott (who coined the above phrase) has been on a roll ever since he's joined the network in 1993.

Again, an ever in the above, but it can be deleted without changing the grammar of the underlying statement.

David has been invaluable since he's joined our unit.

{Do you know that} I've never even approached him about his hitting since he's joined the team?

Michael has done nothing but help us since he's joined us, and you can trust him ...

Well, ESPN's "SportsCenter" anchor Stuart Scott (who coined the above phrase) has been on a roll ever since he's joined the network in 1993.

Again, an ever in the above, but it can be deleted without changing the grammar of the underlying statement.

But I must say, it's been a week now since he's joined the queue for No. 24.

I do not have time, now, to add other examples, such as since I've joined, since you've joined, since we've joined and since they've joined; to search for uncontracted versions of any of the above; or to search for any verbs other than to join; but I hope these real world examples show that your first sentence agrees with the usage of native speakers, and that your book is wrong.

Please note that it does not matter if this usage (using the present perfect in both clauses) is less frequent than some other usage; what matters is if it is "grammatically correct." So, in sum, I have no idea why your book says that the second sentence is the correct one of the two.

Your book is wrong, and the first sentence is fine–except that there should be a determiner before the single count noun bribe.

What you are basically asking is: Can we use the present perfect in both the "since" clause and the independent clause in such a sentence as

The answer is yes, and I will show this with many real world examples written by native English speakers.

The past action of the "since" clause is to join. Using the present perfect makes the past action of to join relevant to the moment of speaking. It refers to the whole duration or length of time between when the father first joined the club and right now, when the sentence is said. A person might want to use the present perfect to stress the fact that

For instance, if you were defending your father against someone who accused him of taking a bribe, you might want to use the present perfect tense because of how it connects the past action with the present moment.

More examples:

Note that he's unreliable is a contraction of he is unreliable while he's joined up is a contraction of he has joined up. Every use of he's joined in these examples is a contraction of He has joined.

David has been invaluable since he's joined our unit.

{Do you know that} I've never even approached him about his hitting since he's joined the team?

Michael has done nothing but help us since he's joined us, and you can trust him ...

Well, ESPN's "SportsCenter" anchor Stuart Scott (who coined the above phrase) has been on a roll ever since he's joined the network in 1993.

Again, an ever in the above, but it can be deleted without changing the grammar of the underlying statement.

But I must say, it's been a week now since he's joined the queue for No. 24.

I do not have time, now, to add other examples, such as since I've joined, since you've joined, since we've joined and since they've joined; to search for uncontracted versions of any of the above; or to search for any verbs other than to join; but I hope these real world examples show that your first sentence agrees with the usage of native speakers, and that your book is wrong.

Please note that it does not matter if this usage (using the present perfect in both clauses) is less frequent than some other usage; what matters is if it is "grammatically correct."

What you are basically asking is: Can we use the present perfect in both the "since" clause and the independent clause in such a sentence as

The answer is yes, and I will show this with many real world examples written by native English speakers. Note that there should be a determiner such as a or one before the single count noun bribe.

Using the present perfect makes the past action of to join relevant to the moment of speaking. It refers to the whole duration or length of time between when the father first joined the club and right now, when the sentence is said. A rough paraphrase is

If you were defending your father against someone who has accused him of taking a bribe, you might want to use the present perfect tense because of how it connects the past action with the present moment.

Examples:

David has been invaluable since he's joined our unit.

Michael has done nothing but help us since he's joined us, and you can trust him ...

Note that he's unreliable is a contraction of he is unreliable while he's joined up is a contraction of he has joined up. Every use of he's joined in these examples is a contraction of He has joined.

Well, ESPN's "SportsCenter" anchor Stuart Scott (who coined the above phrase) has been on a roll ever since he's joined the network in 1993.

Again, an ever in the above, but it can be deleted without changing the grammar of the underlying statement.

{Do you know that} I've never even approached him about his hitting since he's joined the team?

But I must say, it's been a week now since he's joined the queue for No. 24.

I do not have time, now, to add other examples, such as since I've joined, since you've joined, since we've joined and since they've joined; to search for uncontracted versions of any of the above; or to search for any verbs other than to join; but I hope these real world examples show that your first sentence agrees with the usage of native speakers.

Please note that it does not matter if this usage (using the present perfect in both clauses) is less frequent than some other usage; what matters is if it is "grammatically correct." So, in sum, I have no idea why your book says that the second sentence is the correct one of the two.

added 873 characters in body
Source Link
Alan Carmack
  • 12k
  • 2
  • 23
  • 52

Your book is wrong, and the first sentence is fine. Exceptfine–except that there should be a determiner before the single count noun bribe.

The answer is yes, and I will show this with many real world examples written by native English speakers.

First, a reminder of what the present perfect does and why one might want to use it in a sentence such as yours.

The past action of the "since" clause is to join. Using the present perfect makes the past action of to join relevant to the moment of speaking. It refers to the whole duration or length of time between when the father first joined the club and right now, when the sentence is said. A person might want to use the present perfect to stress the fact that

Since my father first joined the club all the way up till right now, he has not taken a bribe.

For instance, if you were defending your father against someone who accused him of taking a bribe, you might want to use the present perfect tense because of how it connects the past action with the present moment.

Now, a dozen examples from real English, not textbook English.

There is no grammatical reason why the present perfect cannot be used in both clauses, and your book and sources that say the same thing as your book are wrong.

Here are many examples from real world English. Note that in each example the "since" clause is talking about duration over time and not as a synonym for because:

I found all these examples using this google Books search ("since he's joined"). And I have even ignored the first one I get ("Ever since he's joined the Powhatan council as a sub chief he's had to put aside many of his opinions of them", because it uses the word ever, but really that makes littleno difference as to whether the sentence is grammatical.)

More examples:

Note that he's unreliable is a contraction of he is unreliable while he's joined up is a contraction of he has joined up. Every use of he's joined in these examples is a contraction of He has joined.

Again, an ever in the above, but it can be deleted with little change in meaning. It serves as an intensifier. It doesn't change thewithout changing the grammar of the underlying statement.

I do not have time, now, to add other examples, such as since I've joined, since you've joined, since we've joined and since they've joined; to search for uncontracted versions of any of the above; or even to search for any verbs other than to join, or search for uncontracted forms of since he's joined; but I hope these real world examples show that your first sentence agrees with the usage of native speakers, and that your book is wrong.

 

You can also use since he's joined with athe simple present tense in the independent clause:

Your book is wrong, and the first sentence is fine. Except that there should be a determiner before the single count noun bribe.

The answer is yes, and I will show this with many real world examples written by native English speakers.

There is no grammatical reason why the present perfect cannot be used in both clauses, and your book and sources that say the same thing as your book are wrong.

Here are many examples from real world English. Note that in each example the "since" clause is talking about duration over time and not as a synonym for because:

I found all these examples using this google Books search ("since he's joined"). And I have even ignored the first one I get ("Ever since he's joined the Powhatan council as a sub chief he's had to put aside many of his opinions of them", because it uses the word ever, but really that makes little difference.)

Note that he's unreliable is a contraction of he is unreliable while he's joined up is a contraction of he has joined up.

Again, an ever in the above, but it can be deleted with little change in meaning. It serves as an intensifier. It doesn't change the grammar of the underlying statement.

I do not have time, now, to add other examples, such as since I've joined, or even to search for verbs other than to join, or search for uncontracted forms of since he's joined; but I hope these real world examples show that your first sentence agrees with the usage of native speakers, and that your book is wrong.

You can also use since he's joined with a present tense in the independent clause:

Your book is wrong, and the first sentence is fine–except that there should be a determiner before the single count noun bribe.

The answer is yes, and I will show this with many real world examples written by native English speakers.

First, a reminder of what the present perfect does and why one might want to use it in a sentence such as yours.

The past action of the "since" clause is to join. Using the present perfect makes the past action of to join relevant to the moment of speaking. It refers to the whole duration or length of time between when the father first joined the club and right now, when the sentence is said. A person might want to use the present perfect to stress the fact that

Since my father first joined the club all the way up till right now, he has not taken a bribe.

For instance, if you were defending your father against someone who accused him of taking a bribe, you might want to use the present perfect tense because of how it connects the past action with the present moment.

Now, a dozen examples from real English, not textbook English.

Here are many examples from real world English. Note that in each example the "since" clause is talking about duration over time and not as a synonym for because:

I found all these examples using this google Books search ("since he's joined"). And I have even ignored the first one I get ("Ever since he's joined the Powhatan council as a sub chief he's had to put aside many of his opinions of them", because it uses the word ever, but really that makes no difference as to whether the sentence is grammatical.)

More examples:

Note that he's unreliable is a contraction of he is unreliable while he's joined up is a contraction of he has joined up. Every use of he's joined in these examples is a contraction of He has joined.

Again, an ever in the above, but it can be deleted without changing the grammar of the underlying statement.

I do not have time, now, to add other examples, such as since I've joined, since you've joined, since we've joined and since they've joined; to search for uncontracted versions of any of the above; or to search for any verbs other than to join; but I hope these real world examples show that your first sentence agrees with the usage of native speakers, and that your book is wrong.

 

You can also use since he's joined with the simple present tense in the independent clause:

added 46 characters in body
Source Link
Alan Carmack
  • 12k
  • 2
  • 23
  • 52

Why, he's been almost like a son to me since he's joined us — learning with me...

(Note: the above perhaps uses "usual" in a dialectal way, but this does not invalidate the use of the clauses we are interested in.)

...he's unreliable and since he's joined up*since he's joined up with that damned American. he's become insolent into the bargain.

Note that he's unreliable is a contraction of he is unreliable while he's joined up is a contraction of he has joined up.

I do not have time, now, to add other examples, such as since I've joined, or even to search for verbs other than to join, or search for uncontracted forms of since he's joined; but I hope these real world examples show that your first sentence agrees with the usage of native speakers, and that your book is wrong.

You can also turn any of these examples into a question. For example:

Has Vashni proven her usefulness time and again in the short time since she's joined us?

and

Has Michael done anything but help us since he's joined us?

Why, he's been almost like a son to me since he's joined us — learning with me.

(Note: the above perhaps uses "usual" in a dialectal way, but this does not invalidate the use of the clauses we are interested in.

...he's unreliable and since he's joined up* with that damned American. he's become insolent into the bargain.

I do not have time, now, to add other examples, such as since I've joined, or even to search for verbs other than to join, but I hope these real world examples show that your first sentence agrees with the usage of native speakers, and that your book is wrong

Why, he's been almost like a son to me since he's joined us...

(Note: the above perhaps uses "usual" in a dialectal way, but this does not invalidate the use of the clauses we are interested in.)

...he's unreliable and since he's joined up with that damned American. he's become insolent into the bargain.

Note that he's unreliable is a contraction of he is unreliable while he's joined up is a contraction of he has joined up.

I do not have time, now, to add other examples, such as since I've joined, or even to search for verbs other than to join, or search for uncontracted forms of since he's joined; but I hope these real world examples show that your first sentence agrees with the usage of native speakers, and that your book is wrong.

You can also turn any of these examples into a question. For example:

Has Vashni proven her usefulness time and again in the short time since she's joined us?

and

Has Michael done anything but help us since he's joined us?

added 46 characters in body
Source Link
Alan Carmack
  • 12k
  • 2
  • 23
  • 52
Loading
Source Link
Alan Carmack
  • 12k
  • 2
  • 23
  • 52
Loading