Does the past perfect tense make sense in this sentence? "Sent from an "is" to a "was" before he'd had his breakfast."

Question

From the movie Lucky Number Slevin:

(He was) Relegated to the past tense. (He was) Sent from an "is" to a "was" before he'd had his breakfast.

The context is Morgan Freeman's character is telling another person how his son was killed in the morning, before breakfast. The use of past perfect tense here doesn't make sense to me, because it contradicts what the past perfect tense is used for. (e.g. When is the past perfect exactly needed?) Either "before he had his breakfast" or "before he would have his breakfast" seem better options. Does the past perfect tense read fine to you? Why?

Answer 1

A state of completion can be fixed in time by the perfect tenses.

He had eaten his breakfast by 9AM.

In other words, breakfast was finished by 9AM.

To "have" breakfast is to eat it, not to have eaten it.

"Do you want to have breakfast?" is an invitation to eat, not a question about whether you wish you had already eaten.

If you do want to use the verb tense to mean "finished breakfast", we need the past participle of lexical verb "have", which is "had":

I have^aux had^lex breakfast already today. No more for me, thanks.

I had^aux had^lex breakfast already when she offered me some yesterday. I told her, no thanks.

Thus, the phrase before he had had his breakfast refers to a time in the past prior to its having been finished. He was killed before he had finished breakfast.

Answer 2

Michael Swan comments on this issue in Practical English Usage:

In clauses with before, we often use present perfect and past perfect tenses to emphasise the idea of completion. You can't go home before I've signed the letters. (= ... before the moment when I have completed the letters.) He went out before I had finished my sentence. (= ... before the moment when I had completed my sentence.) (Note that in sentences like the last, a past perfect tense can refer to a time later than the action of the main verb. This is unusual.)

Answer 3

With Respect to Nicholas I agree with TRomano and Mv Log based on reference to Michael Swan.

CGEL, Michael Swan, and Hornby all state that we can use either the Past Simple or the Past Perfect after the conjuction "before".

In order to make it clearer I will swap "had" for "started eating".

So all four variants will be correct:

1. He was sent from an "is" to a "was" before he had started eating his breakfast.

2. He was sent from an "is" to a "was" before he started eating his breakfast.

3. He had been sent from an "is" to a "was" before he started eating his breakfast.

4. He had been sent from an "is" to a "was" before he had started eating his breakfast.

The main idea is that he hadn't even started eating before he was killed. "had had" may either mean "had started" or "had finished" and this may be a bit of a confusion to most readers. I know I've had it before I had found out about it and learned to tell the difference.

"Practical English Usage" by Michael Swan. Page #84.

• He went out before I had finished my sentence.

A Past Perfect tense can refer to a time later than the action of the main verb.

Here follows:

A special way to use "before" preceding the Past Perfect in reference to an action appearing later: one that was not completed or that didn't yet start.

Here's the printed quote from Michael Swan:

Here's a quote from English Grammar Online:

Here's a quote from Applied English Grammar and Composition by Dr Sharma M.M.:

Answer 4

Since dead people don't generally eat,

... before he could have breakfast

or

... before he could break his fast

would be correct. Morgan and Nick both err.

To clarify, the sentence as written is perfectly reasonable grammar, but it's illogical in the circumstances.

Answer 5

I disagree with everyone's answer thus far. It should be,

"before he had breakfast." (past simple)

See https://www.englishpractice.com/grammar/time-conjunctions-perfect-tense/

http://www.gingersoftware.com/content/grammar-rules/verbs/the-past-perfect-simple-tense/

Normally, the past perfect precedes the conjunction before and follows the conjunction after:

"I had run a mile before I ate breakfast."

"I ate breakfast after I had run a mile."

In the example given above, "He was killed before he had had breakfast" is incorrect English; it should read:

"He had been killed before he had breakfast."

The reason for this is that his death occurs prior to his eating breakfast. The past perfect is used to tell the listener or reader which event or events in the past occurred first:

"I had answered the question before the teacher asked it."

"The teacher asked the question after I had (already) answered it."

"I mowed the grass after I had eaten lunch.

"I had eaten lunch before I mowed the grass.

Now compare the last example above to the following sentence:

"I ate lunch after I had mown the grass."

In this example, my eating lunch follows in time in the past my mowing the grass. In the original example, the actions are flip-flopped.

I hope that might have helped you out. Take care and good luck.

P.S.. The examples given by others in which the past perfect follows the conjunction "before" and the past simple precedes the same conjunction is often heard in spoken English, but it is merely a common error in speech. In other words, it's incorrect English, but it's pretty prevalent. Like the subjunctive mood, this is another pet peeve of mine regarding how native speakers use the language.