I want to mention someone whom I know of only by references on the Internet such as forums and blogs(clarification: I want to write about the person, not to write to the person). This person uses a username of a woman’s first name with a lady’s photo as an avatar. Also, in some comments the person was referred as Ms by others.

Can I therefore by default use she/her/her/hers/herself for third-person pronouns when referencing this person, or should I instead use they/them/their/theirs/themself because this person is someone whom I have never myself met personally, but merely read about?

Is using words that have gender too personal for someone I haven’t actually met, like this person?

Is not using gender too impersonal for someone who to all appearances is female?

I hope that answers to this question will not be restricted by situations called out in the recent SE Code of Conduct “We also recommend that you don't make assumptions about people's gender and that you prefer gender-neutral language when unsure” (from https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/336364/what-does-the-code-of-conduct-say-about-pronouns/336368#336368).

That’s because I am not asking anything at all about the SE Code of Conduct. I am just asking what the most common “preferred” usage in regular use is for this situation in present-day English from a common-sense point of view of a native speaker of English.

Clarification: I myself have a Russian-language background but have been living in Australia for more than 25 years. In all those years, I was somehow unaware of the so-called “singular they” construction until the very recent discussions about it on Meta. I was never taught about this construction when I was learning English, so I am unclear about when native speakers instinctively use it or avoid using it.

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    I am not in the least surprised you were not taught about "singular they" 25 years ago. Even in Cambridge it wasn't that common then. Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 9:32
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    @MartinBonner That hasn't been my experience. Singular "they" has been commonly used in day-to-day speech as far back as I can remember (the 1980s) in the UK. I am surprised that it doesn't seem to be commonly taught to EFL students. It's the second time in as many days that I've seen someone on SE say that they weren't taught it when they learnt English.
    – Aaron F
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 13:43
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    @AaronF Likewise here in the US. I grew up with singular they and the language I speak would be quite different without it.
    – user230
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 15:49
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    The 1975 Cambridge Univ. Press article Androcentrism in prescriptive grammar: singular ‘they’, sex-indefinite ‘he’, and ‘he or she’ doi.org/10.1017/S0047404500004607 says the singular "they" remains widespread despite trying to suppress it for 250 years.
    – DavePhD
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 17:33
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    I noticed your question mentions themself, which it doesn't look like any of the answers have picked up on. Many speakers do have themself and I think it's becoming more and more common, particularly in speech, but at the moment most speakers expect themselves rather than themself. You can, of course, use whichever form seems most natural to you, but learners may want to be aware of the difference.
    – user230
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 17:59

6 Answers 6


The general consensus (for the entire English speaking community) about the situation is at the moment in a lot of flux.

Historically (Early to 20th c Modern English), if you've seen or heard the person, then they present usually as one sex or the other (through clothes, name, or title) and you refer to them as either 'he' or 'she'. If you didn't know anything about the person, the default was 'he' (as prescribed in school and used by most people) or sometimes 'they' (Shakespeare and Jane Austen used this 'singular' they).

In the sixties (1960's) during second wave feminism, with genders becoming more common in roles that were by default the other gender (usually a female in a male role), it was becoming (more) apparent that assuming 'he' for an unknown was presumptuous and often wrong. So it became more common to see alternatives like 'he or she' or 's/he' or sometimes choosing 'she' instead of 'he'. In print, the singular 'they' (for unknown gender) was rarely used, but in speech people unconsciously and very naturally just say 'they' whenever gender isn't known:

"Someone just called me on the phone."

"What did they say?"

is entirely unremarkable and the way every one has said it. No one in the 20th or 21st c has said "What did he or she say?" ever. Also, in the 60's (or even before) some people devised a number of alternative pronouns intending to be some form of gender neutral, but these never seemed to catch on in writing or speech, formal or informal. But if the gender was known, the classic corresponding pronoun was still used, 'he' or 'she'.

More recently (end 20thc, early 21st c), with both the advent of internet communication (where gender is more often not known or inferable) and the acceptance of people who don't identify entirely with the two genders, there's been quicker change, not always known to everybody. Though there has been more acceptance of the traditional singular 'they' (only for when gender is not known), there have been two further trends: 1) to use 'they' even when gender is known, and 2) to let people specify their own 3rd person pronoun (gendered, not gendered, a neologism, whatever it may be. So it is becoming more common to ask an individual which pronoun they'd prefer when others are talking about them. This is a fairly new situation (only the past few years). Because many people are aware of different habits but also many people are not so aware, there's a lot of variation in what people use (and also a lot of variation in what's accepted). Some human resources (HR) departments in some companies in the English speaking world have written strict behavior rules on what pronoun to refer to people, but this is not universal (nor even that common). An HR department is not a automatically what people are forced to do nor a reflection of what people actually do, but is more of a sign of general cultural trends.

This is a long explanation that doesn't necessarily directly answer your question because currently the situation is changing and different places do different things.

If you know absolutely nothing, 'they' or 'he or she' is currently most common ('s/he' doesn't seem to be used anymore in media). If you only know that they present as female, with a female name, and a female title (Ms.), it is most likely appropriate to refer to this person as 'she'. Few would find a problem with that. But if you find out that they prefer to be referred to as some other 3rd person pronoun, then common courtesy would suggest that you use this other pronoun.

To be clear, currently the great majority of people (more informal) and media (more formal) use 'he' for males and 'she' for females, and in the great majority of cases determining gender is easy (by first name, by appearance, or title).

Note: I'm attempting a descriptive answer, one that attempts to describe the history of what people actually do, and a minimum of what a language learner probably should do.

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    The singular they was not created in the 1960's. it's very old and apolitical.
    – user103792
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 7:18
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    "The general consensus (for the entire English speaking community)" - you mean SO community? Because if not, than this is plain false.
    – Davor
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 10:14
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    @Davor What Mitch was saying with that sentence is that there is no consensus among people who speak english. Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 16:42
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    "(Shakespeare and Jane Austen used this 'singular' they)." As far as I've seen, only when used after words/ideas like "everyone," "no one", "any one", etc. Can you show an example where they referred to a specific person with they? Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 21:27
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    "'s/he' doesn't seem to be used anymore in speech or media" It wasn't ever used in speech, was it? How do you even pronounce it? Commented Oct 26, 2019 at 9:00

You should use she/her pronouns. It seems obvious to you that she presents as female so there's no reason you should use other pronouns. To use they/them pronouns would imply her gender is ambiguous, which according to the evidence you cited, it is obviously not so.

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    The usage of they/them doesn't imply that the person's gender is ambiguous (it can imply that OP doesn't know their gender, but that says nothing about the person and their supposedly ambiguous gender). There is nothing wrong with using they/them; but it is not required (which is what OP is currently suspecting).
    – Flater
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 13:17
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    @Flater: Using they/them when the person is obviously presenting as a particular gender and has not asked you to use they/them can signal that you don't acknowledge their gender (e.g. maybe you think they're trans and you "disagree with" it). Whether this is actually at risk of misinterpretation is highly context dependent, but I would try to avoid it. Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 13:31
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    @Flater: Like I said, it's highly context dependent, and I often do the same especially on SE sites where the avatars are small, not present in comments, and easily overlooked. But if you do know and have an ongoing interaction online with a person, rather than them being a random interaction on SE, I would find it weird to call that person they/them despite being aware of the gender they present as. Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 13:39
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    OP asked for a choice between two interpretations, but it looks like everyone is instead explaining one of those interpretations. “They” means indefinite gender, as most of the ‘answers’ say. It does NOT mean you haven’t met the person.
    – WGroleau
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 19:11
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    Consider that there is a small number of people who are offended if you assume their gender - but a much larger number of people who are offended if you don't.
    – gnasher729
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 22:12

You can use "she/her" to begin with given their gender is quite apparent to you as you say. If they correct you - that is they tell you not to use "she/her" and to instead use something they prefer - then you can by all means do that (if that is what you are willing to do). You can learn from what pronouns others are using to refer to them.

If you are a bit hesitant in using a specific set of pronouns, and you have a gut feeling that things can go south if you assume their gender, then you can just ask them - "What pronouns do you use/prefer?" or "How may I address you (Mr/Ms)?"

Aah.. in the SE community or in some forums/blogs, you can use "OP" if you really wanted to play safe.

My answer does not say you "should do this or do that". It gives you options on several fronts depending on the situation you might find yourself in. One will have to think logically about how to act if in a situation where there is uncertainty about a pronoun usage. If your intuition says it might not be wise to assume their pronoun/gender (based on social cues) then stop, wait, think, and then proceed.

May be you won't have to ask them: you could listen to what others say/use, you could ask their friends/colleagues, or you could check their social media. There are so many ways to figuring this out.

When everything fails you can consider asking them.

Yes, you may offend someone binary if you ask their preference, but then you can always say that is something polite to do just in case the situation was the opposite.

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    I'm not so sure you should ask someone what pronouns they use. It seems like it would be very likely to cause offense.
    – Justin
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 14:48
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    @ReinstateMonica Hello, well it definitely could - it depends on the situation and circumstances. If that person happens to identify as non-binary they will really appreciate if you ask them for their preference. If you assume their gender and use "she/her" or "he/him", they might actually get pissed. Everything is context, surrounding environment, and situation one finds themselves in. I mentioned in my answer that if OP is uncomfortable using "she/her" and has a gut feeling that things may go wrong, then OP can ask them.
    – AIQ
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 18:20
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    I don't understand this at all. When I address you, the pronoun I use is the second person "you", not "he", "she", "they", "xir" or any other third-person neo-pronoun. We only use third-person pronouns to refer to people, not to address them. Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 20:32
  • @MontyHarder By address I meant "Mr/Ms" - this is something OP talked about.
    – AIQ
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 21:32
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    AIQ If that person identifies as "binary", they will be equally offended if you ask for "preferred pronouns". I might ask how to address you if your name was Sam or Pat or say a Japanese name where I have no idea how to interpret it; I wouldn't ask for "preferred pronouns", and asking how to address you gives you a perfect opportunity to tell me your preferred pronouns anyway.
    – gnasher729
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 22:20

I think its fair to say that I'm acquainted with English's singular they, having used it in my own writing and speech since the early 1980's. At least with the US usage, I am.

The question mentions being familiar with the person via the internet, that's actually kind of a big deal to the answer IMHO.

So as big of a fan of singular they as I am, in this case it would probably be best to use the pronouns that are used in those places. Pay particular attention to places where they (likely "she" in this case) would be easily capable of correcting the error if it were in fact an error. If this person is regularly introduced with "she" and hasn't corrected anyone for that, then presumably (at least at that time) she felt that was an acceptable pronoun.

And of course be prepared, if corrected, to apologize and change. That's the main thing really.

Singular they is really most appropriate when:

  1. The gender identity of the person being talked about is unknown.

For instance, if I'm writing a technical document and talking about user interactions, its always "they".

  1. The personal identity of the person being talked about is beside the point.

If I'm talking about something someone did, but it really isn't important that it was Sue who did it, just that someone did, then "they" is more appropriate. I'm not trying to direct the audience's attention to the identity of the person, just what happened (eg: pointing out a systemic problem that needs fixing). The "they" usage is a nice way of pointing out that I'm looking for a response that isn't targeted at the person in question.

A typical everyday use of this is when talking about someone's crappy code, the author in question is always "they", because I want to make it clear this isn't anything personal, just crappy code. If I make it personal, everyone's egos get involved, and I don't want that.

  1. The person being talked about specifically asked for that pronoun.

Again, this is no different than being asked to use a specific name or a title. If someone asks that you call them "Fred", or "Dr. Jones", and you insist on calling them "Fredrico", that's seriously disrepectful. Same goes for pronoun usage. If someone asks you to use "they", and you insist on not doing that, its seriously rude to them.


Personally I try to use (singular) 'they' by default, whenever I am writing (and most of the time when speaking).

I do this because:

Using 'they' all the time, means I don't need to think about it; saving mental effort.

It means I don't make mistakes / use the wrong gender (e.g., referring to our new boss as a he when they are female or vice versa)

It means I don't have to use that ugly he/she or s/he in my writing.

Using 'they' consistently means it can be friendly to trans queer etc folks (so you don't accidentally mis-gender someone, which can be easy to do while someone is transitioning). But be aware of how individuals react and adjust accordingly. For example, some trans folk may feel singled out when you use 'they', if they haven't seen you use 'they' in general; and will feel more comfortable if you used 'he' or 'she' (This goes for everyone actually).

Finally, and probably most importantly, I find it makes my writing clearer. Say you are describing a story about two people Alex and Blair and how they are using a computer system. I just use 'they' for the pronouns. However this means you use singular they to refer to both people, which is confusing. So then I go and edit the text to either use each person's name (Alex or Blair), or use their role/job title (customer / admin user). Once I have done that, the piece is much clearer than if I had just used he/she.

So for me using 'they' is just the easiest and best writing.

Bonus: Rather than using he/she/they try to use the person's actual name. This helps you build rapport with them, and is clearer still.

So in OP's case, I would try to refer to them by their name when you can and it makes grammatical sense. Otherwise if makes sense use 'they' as the general default. However, when you interact (or observe an interaction) with them personally, and it becomes apparent they have a preference for either 'he' or 'she', then use that.

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    "It is friendly to trans folks" - well, sometimes. Other times, using "they" is seen as insulting, and results in you being accused of deliberately not using the preferred pronouns, even when you do not know what those pronoun are. As with many things, it varies from individual to individual, per personality and prior experiences. Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 13:23
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    I am seconding @Chronocidal's point. As a trans woman, I want to be treated as you would any other woman, cis or not. If I detect that I'm being treated differently, that will annoy me, and while a quick polite conversation typically resolves this, it is not safe to assume that we all would be cool with "they". In this answer, it looks like the usage is consistent across everybody, so kudos to that. But it would be friendly due to it being consistent with treatment of people in general. Point is, a lot of us just wanted to be treated as normal, so if that is your normal usage, go for it. Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 15:12
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    @RebeccaNelson Fair enough. Yeah I try to use 'they' for everyone. However if it was the first time we had met, someone like yourself may not know that. If I know that someone has particular pronouns which they prefer I would try to make sure I use them. I also know of one trans person who he came out wanted to use male pronouns until they felt she was transitioned enough. Humans are funny beings. Don't fit neatly in boxes at all. Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 20:02
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    Perhaps change that to "Is friendly to gender-nonconforming folks"? In the two instances of people I know personally who prefer that pronoun set, that is the reason.
    – T.E.D.
    Commented Oct 25, 2019 at 20:02
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    @gnasher729 What if they are wearing trousers, or what if they are wearing a kilt (perhaps with a sporran!)? Commented Oct 27, 2019 at 4:37

There's no one right answer to this, but if the person is obviously presenting as a particular gender and has not specifically told you to use certain pronouns, I would lean towards using the typical ones for the gender they present as (she/her in your case).

Singular they/them is perfectly valid both as someone's correct pronouns, and as a generic set of pronouns when you don't know gender or want to speak generally about a non-specific person who could be any gender. However, if there is a particular person you're talking about and they are obviously presenting as a particular gender, using they/them could be interpreted as a signal that you don't acknowledge their gender. For example, maybe you think they're trans and "disagree with" their gender. Whether this is actually at risk of misinterpretation is highly context dependent, but I would try to avoid getting in such a situation.

Most importantly, if you do get it wrong and the person seems unhappy, apologize without making a big deal out of it and note the correct pronouns to use for them in the future.

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