How to tell a pronoun "you" from a personal determinative "you"?

Question

Short version of my question:

How can I tell whether "you" in the following sentences is a personal pronoun or a personal determinative?

"You Hebrews have been nothing but trouble."

"You, the students, should form a society."

Longer (more detailed) version:

I was asking a question the other day on this website on the point of how to use commas with appositives, that is, in such cases like:

My brother Nathan is here.

(I have many brothers and the one I am talking about is Nathan, so this appositive must not be set off by commas).

and:

My brother, Nathan, is here.

(I have only one brother and his name is Nathan, so this appositive must be set off by commas).

My main focus was on how to go about such cases when one of the identifiers is the pronoun "you", for example:

You Hebrews have been nothing but trouble.

One supporter noted to me in his answer that "you" in that case was not a pronoun, but rather a personal determinative:

In this example, "you" is not a pronoun but a personal determinative, and "Hebrews" is not an appositive NP but head of the NP "you Hebrews", functioning as subject of the sentence.

When I asked him how he differentiated between a personal pronoun and a personal determinative, he provided the following explanation:

The personal determinatives are exactly parallel to the other definite determiners such as the demonstratives and the definite article in, for example, permitting quantifier "all" as a predeterminer, cf. "all we supporters of Brexit will win the argument". This property distinguishes them from the personal pronouns, which permit "all" only when postmodified, i.e. "All we/you who support Brexit will win the argument", but not *"All we/you will win the argument". Thus "we" and "you" are pronouns in "We, the supporters of Brexit, will win the argument"/ "You, the students, should form a society".

To this I told him that there was no word "all" in my sentence, so that method wouldn't help much. And I also said that I didn't see much structural difference between:

You Hebrews have been nothing but trouble.

and

You, the students, should form a society.

Unfortunately, somebody downvoted his answer and he took it as mine, so he stopped answering.

But I still want to know how to differentiate between the personal pronoun "you" and the personal determinative "you", especially in those two sentences above.

Can anybody, please, share their input on this?

Answer 1

To this I told him that there was no word "all" in my sentence, so that method wouldn't help much.

The point is that you can modify your sentence by putting "all" in and seeing whether it remains grammatical.

A personal determinative functions, as its name implies, as a determiner, which means that an additional determiner is ungrammatical. For instance, "You the Hebrews" is incorrect if "you" is being used as a personal determinative, because "the" is a determiner. "You, the students", on other hand, is correct because "you" is not being used as a personal determiner.

If "you" is being used as a pronoun, then it is the main label being applied to the audience, and any further label is being used appositively. If "you" is being used as a personal determinative, then the other label is the main label being applied to the audience, and "you" is used in a supplementary manner to emphasize that they are the audience.