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I am quite puzzled over this usage of the word "must":

"Members of his team said that he must forget everything he knew about swimming"

(This sentence is taken from English grammar textbook "Perspectives":

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I was told that it was okay to say that, but this Wikipedia table on modal verbs says that the modal verb "must" doesn't have its past-tense form (unlike such modal verbs like, for example, "will" and "can" that have their clear past-tense forms "would" and "could"):

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If so, then, as far as I understand, such past-tense sentense like "They told him 10 years ago that he must forget everything" must be grammatically incorrect (unlike some present-tense sentence like "Today I am telling you that you must forget it!").

What am I getting wrong here?

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  • 1
    Both okay. Had to may be the past, but a requirement for the future. Commented Feb 20 at 23:04
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    Neither is better. They mean different things.
    – Lambie
    Commented Feb 20 at 23:25
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    "Must" does not have a preterite (past) form.
    – BillJ
    Commented Feb 21 at 6:44
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    No, it's fine. I was just commenting on the title of your question "The Past Form of Must",
    – BillJ
    Commented Feb 21 at 13:26
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    @gotube - OK. I have edited my question. Please, check it out.
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 24 at 7:10

4 Answers 4

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The sentence is grammatically incorrect for the reasons you guess, and the Wikipedia chart confirms. If I were marking a standardized writing exam, I would mark this as an error.

The past perfect "had learned" makes it unambiguous that "must forget" has a past meaning, not a present one, so it's incorrect.

THAT SAID, in unprepared speech, rather than in writing, I could imagine a less educated native speaker saying this, and a lot of people not even noticing the mistake. I hear this type of mistake from sports broadcasters all the time.

So, it's not going to cause communication problems, but it is wrong.

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  • Thank you for your answer. What would be the correct way to express that thought then? Could I say something like "They said that he was supposed to forget all he had learned" instead? Or, perhaps "he was to forget" or "he had to forget" would fit the bill? BTW I just found the source and added it to my question. You can check it out if you want.
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 24 at 11:05
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    @brilliant The correct form without changing the meaning at all would be, "Members of his team said that he had to forget everything he knew about swimming."
    – gotube
    Commented Feb 26 at 8:38
  • Got it. Thank you!
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 26 at 8:57
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Must is a modal verb. Modal verbs do not change in form to make different tenses. Both your examples are fine, but they are using different verbs. 'Must' and 'had to' are not irregular forms of the same verb.

Of course, as auxiliary verbs, modals are used alongside another verb which most likely will have different forms. So, for example, if you say "you should go", retrospectively you might say "you should have gone".

'Must' is used differently to 'should'. We use 'should' for actions or responsibilities that we think are best for the concerned subject. We use 'must' things that are considered *compulsory or necessary. For this reason, we don't use 'must' to say that someone ought to have done something in the past - we would usually just say that they should have done it to fulfil their compulsory obligation. When we do use 'must' about something in the past it is to express disbelief that it wasn't done.

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  • What about "can" and "could", "will" and "would"?
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 21 at 14:09
  • @brilliant I'm not going to go through all of them, but the short answer is no. The modal verbs - can, could, may, might, must, ought to, shall, should, will and would - do not have different tenses. Take 'would' for example - you can use it to talk about something hypothetical in the future (eg "I would do that") or something hypothetical in the past (eg "I would have done that") but it isn't a different participle of the same verb because nothing has actually been done.
    – Astralbee
    Commented Feb 21 at 14:14
  • "Looking back, you can only say if they did or did not do it" - Not nessasserily only that. Looking back, I can also say what others told me in the past about what they considered then as something that would be imperative, appropriate, important, etc. for me to do in the future. In fact, my example in the question is exactly that case.
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 21 at 14:16
  • "I'm not going to go through all of them, but the short answer is no" - Sorry, but you are not saying the truth here. There are many grammar books teaching that "He said, "I will do it"" can be rewritten as "He said he would do it". Just like "He said, "I run this factory"" can be rewritten as "He said he ran that factory". In other words, just like "ran" is the past form of "run", "would" is the past form of "will".
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 21 at 14:20
  • @brilliant I don't see your example as different at all. To say you "must forget" doesn't have a corresponding past tense. The past tense of "forget" is "forgot", but if you did forget then the necessity is moot. You did it.
    – Astralbee
    Commented Feb 21 at 14:20
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The passage speaks about Lewis Pugh, a swimmer, an idealist and a fervent environmentalist who swims the icy waters of lake Imja, 5,300 metres above sea level.

He failed the first time because he was swimming fast, therefore his crew urged him to change tactics and say at this altitude he must forget [present] everything he knew about swimming [past]; instead of swimming fast he must swim [present] as slowly as possible.

The original text uses “said" but if the author had written say it would have been easier to see why the modal verb must was kept and not substituted with had to. With had to the reader would have lost the sense of urgency, immediacy and drama in the team members' voice that the historical present has.

The historical present is used to narrate past events, it brings the action alive, it also adds drama to a story, which is why some call it the dramatic present. The deontic must employed in the original text is often uttered by authoritative figures such as parents, employers, coaches, and doctors but in this scenario the crew is not commanding Pugh to swim slowly; they are urging him to go against his instincts and everything he knows about swimming in perilous situations (swimming in the North Pole is given as an example). In this instance, must denotes deontic necessity.

In her blog, All Things Linguistics, the linguist Gretchen McCulloch explains

Notice that English is generally good at making distinctions between necessity and possibility but bad at making distinctions between epistemic and deontic, which must be cleared up via context. Some languages do make straightforward lexical distinctions between various flavours of modality like epistemic and deontic.

She provides an easy-to-use diagram which illustrates the two different modalities

epistemic vs deontic diagram

In the diagram, the blue areas are epistemic modality (according to evidence, reasoning, or beliefs), the red areas are deontic modality (according to a set of rules or desires), the dark areas are necessity (in all possible worlds), the light areas are possibility (in at least one possible world).

Dark blue is epistemic necessity
“It must be raining outside (I can hear the rain).” In all worlds consistent with my beliefs, it is raining outside.

Dark red is deontic necessity
“It must rain this week (in order for the crops not to spoil)” In all worlds consistent with my desires, it rains this week.

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  • "The original text uses “said" but if the author had written "say" it would have been..." - If the author had written "say" this whole question would have never been posted because the historical present in the passage would have been absolutely clear to me, in which case "must" would have been absolutely grammatical.
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 25 at 12:08
  • @brilliant so you agree (in part) with my analysis, this makes me happy. But I also said “… it would have been easier to see why "must“ was kept", say might have been preferable (at least to me) but it's not wrong to use "said" in that context, the author of the piece is switching tenses to enhance the drama of the situation. Lastly, before we get into an argument of which I have no time to enter, this the only post which uses reliable and credible resources to support their answer.
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Feb 25 at 12:15
  • gotube's post also uses reliable and credible resource - the only reason why he didn't provide the link to the Wikipedia chart on modals is because I had already added that link to my original question. Your point on justifying "said" in the passage (as opposed to "say") still needs a resource confirming that switching to the historical past right in the middle of a sentence, especially right after "said", is acceptable.
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 25 at 12:23
  • @brilliant My answer says and explains quite clearly that the tense in "must forget everything" is present and why it is used appropriately in this case. I don't see any answer that mentions deontic or epistemic must. I also supplied a reliable and authoritative source for "deontic necessity" but that doesn't satisfy you either. This is my last comment on the matter. Thank you in any case for editing the question and providing the original source and also for changing your edited version with the original. Once I read that everything began to click into place.
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Feb 25 at 12:31
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It is perfectly reasonable and common for a sentence to mix verb tenses, if the actions in the sentence happen at different times.

A trivial example would be, "Yesterday I read a book and tomorrow I will watch a movie." The reading happened yesterday and so is past tense. The watching won't happen until tomorrow and so is future tense.

A slightly more complex example: "Yesterday I decided that I will go on vacation next Thursday." The deciding happened yesterday and so is past tense. But the trip itself is not until next Thursday and so is future tense.

"Must" doesn't make sense in past tense. "Must" makes a statement into a command, "You must do this". You can't command someone to do something in the past (assuming he doesn't have a time machine). You can only command someone to do something in the future.

So, "Members of his team said to him ten years ago that he must forget everything he had learned in school" makes perfect sense. The saying happened ten years ago and so is past tense. But what they said was a command of something he must do in the then-future. They didn't tell him that he must forget these things the day before they told him to forget. That would be logically impossible. They said he must forget sometime after they instructed him.

Consider, "Members ... said to him ten years ago that he will forget ..." The saying is ten years ago. The forgetting is in the future.

Side note: The future from when they said it, not necessarily from today. Like if I said, "In 1942 Winston Churchill said, 'We will win this war'", the saying is in the past. The winning is in the future from when he said it. By now that is also past, but it was future when he said it, so he used the future tense.

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  • (1) "A trivial example would be, "Yesterday I read a book and tomorrow I will watch a movie."" - I don't quite see how this one is a good example of "mixing verb tenses". The verb "read" here denotes an action that took place in the past (relative to the time of speaking) as denoted by the word "yesterday". Hence we have the past-tense form "read". And the the action of watching a movie belongs to the future (relative to the time of speaking) as denoted by the word "tomorrow". Hence we have "will".
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 24 at 10:39
  • (2) We don't see in this sentence the word "will" describing an action of the past, nor do we see the past-tense "read" describing a future action. Same with "Yesterday I decided that I will go on vacation next Thursday." The past-form "decided" describes an action of the past (that is, of yesterday) and the word "will" describes the action of going on vacation, which is, relative to the moment of speaking, of the future. So, where is that "mixing of verb tenses" in these two examples?
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 24 at 10:39
  • (3) "Consider, "Members ... said to him ten years ago that he will forget ..." The saying is ten years ago. The forgetting is in the future" - If by the moment of saying this sentence this future has already become the past, that is, the act of forgetting has already transpired, then this sentence is grammatically incorrect. The correct way would be this: "Members ... said to him ten years ago that he WOULD forget ...".
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 25 at 5:02
  • (4) However, if even now, that is, 10 years later, he has still not forgotten, then the sentence "Members ... said to him ten years ago that he WILL forget ..." is still correct because the word "will" in it refers to the time, which is still the future relative to the moment of saying this sentence.
    – brilliant
    Commented Feb 25 at 5:03
  • @brilliant RE "trivial example": That's the point. One action is in the past and so uses past tense; another action is in the future and so uses future tense. So both past and future are used in the same sentence.
    – Jay
    Commented Feb 25 at 14:36

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