3
  1. Such boys will be rewarded by the principal as obtain good marks.

  2. Such was the condition that/as was the treatment. (Both are correct)

  3. I like the same perfume as she (likes).

  4. I shall buy the same perfume that my friend bought.

I am confused here where to use that and as. I mean why it uses "as" in 1 and 3. Can we replace here "as" with "that", if not then why? I want someone differentiate b/w uses of "as" and "that".

Thank you

  • 2
    in (1) I think principle should be principal (head of school). The phrasing feels more like British English rather than American English. (2) doesn't make any sense to me. (3) I would probably use 'that' or 'as she does.' (4) I like 'that' but 'as' would be understandable. – mkennedy Sep 9 '15 at 22:00
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    Can you please explain what confuses you? Right now it's very unclear what you're asking us to help you with. Are these examples what you think are the correct answer or are they the correct answer from a book and you want it explained why? – Catija Sep 9 '15 at 23:27
  • Yes according to book these are correct answer. I am confused with the use of "as" and "that". Where to use "as" and "that". – starun008 Sep 10 '15 at 6:46
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    We find that-clauses and as-clauses, both in restrictive capacity, going back a thousand years. They're often interchangeable, except in cases of verbal ellipsis, where "that" is not used: ...the same perfume as she (likes) – Tᴚoɯɐuo Sep 14 '15 at 17:56
1
+200

Such boys as/that/who obtain good marks will be rewarded by the principal.

This is idiomatic.

Such here is a determiner, to be precise a pre-determiner. And the head noun is boys. The noun phrase here is Such boys. The part - as/that/who obtain good marks - is modifying the noun phrase. They are actually a relative clause. You can here use either that or who or as.

There is no doubt but that who and that is a relative pronoun. And as is also a relative pronoun here. The use of "as" as a relative pronoun is mostly dialectal, but when it's used with "such" or "same", it's widely accepted.

Such is the elegance of this typeface that it's still a favourite of designers.

Here such is a pronoun, and is used to apply a stress in this sentence. Generally we don't use as in such sentences as this one. If we use, it wouldn't mean the same thing.

I like the same perfume as she (likes).

Here also as is used as a relative pronoun, to add information about the noun phrase the same perfume. Here same is an adjective.

I shall buy the same perfume that/as my friend bought.

Here again as is used as a relative pronoun. The noun phrase that the relative clause - as/that my friend bought - modifies is the same perfume. Same is an adjective here.

As for your second sentence, I don't think it's correct with "that".

Reference -

  1. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage
  2. Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English
  3. Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary
2

Kinda hard here to answer from an American English view.

  1. If the spelling/usage of principle is correct, then "of" might be better. If principles, then perhaps "that" would work. If Principal, then "such as by" or "by". Without some previous context, this one is difficult to fully judge and hard to make sense of.

  2. I'd expect a comma after condition to make it a clear before and after comparison, but it still reads strangely to me. I'd almost want a "thus" instead and again it would need some context to work smoothly as-is.

  3. This one is good and correct, though "that" works just as well.

  4. Both "that" or "as" could be used here and would mean the same thing.

Update:

Ok, after a bit more research (and I apologize as the internet is very bad at giving any information on this particular construct), it is not ungrammatical to separate "such" and "as" in a construct like this:

such (noun) as (verb)

Where in the first sentence's:

boys will be rewarded by the principal

is treated as a noun and

obtain

is the verb. It reads very tersely, but with your noun changed to principal, it is understandable.

The second is the same construct, though I believe there is a lot of implied information here that is being omitted:

Noun:

was the condition (of the noun/object/subject implied)

Verb:

was the treatment (to the previously implied noun/object/subject)

Here, because of the construct, we assume the second is a verb even though we have to work a bit to make it so.

A poor source...

If someone else has a better source or more info, please post as I admit the above information is a bit sub-par without a good source for further research.

In real life, the only time I come across this sort of construction is within the King James Bible and other older texts, so it is very edge case.

  • Can you please cite the book where these statements and the answers were given? The first 2 statements look grammatically incorrect to me (unless there's a comma added in the second statement). For the last two, yes they are correct and as and that are interchangeable here. – Mamta D Sep 14 '15 at 11:46
  • SP Bakshi (Arihant Publication). Actually this is not a well known book. This is just exam oriented. You can find this in India only. But It uses some reference books like Oxford practice grammar, Word power. So I can say, but not sure, that Book may be right. – starun008 Sep 14 '15 at 19:02
  • Can you please suggest me a Grammar Book for a British English. – starun008 Sep 14 '15 at 19:05
  • Do a Google search for "uk english grammar pdf", you will find many free PDFs from reputed publishing houses. Those would help you. – Mamta D Sep 15 '15 at 11:22
2

Choosing which one to use is determined by what in the sentence it modifies.

Use of 'as' is an adverbial construction. Answers How? & Why?

"We must eat as we work." ----- Specifies how we must eat.
"That beam is twice as long." -- Answer to "how long is it?"
"He posed as a waiter."-----------How did he pose?

In example 2, I agree with previous answer, there should be comma for clarity.

Aside from that, it fills the adverbial role. It answers the question "How was the treatment?" Like the condition itself.

Use of 'that' is an usually adjectival construction. Answers What? & Which?

Number 4 in your question is a typical example:

"I shall buy the same perfume that my friend bought." Answers "which perfume?"

Quick Rule of Thumb: 'As' has a very similar sense to 'like' and can often be substituted. However,'that' usually cannot be replaced by 'like' and maintain the meaning of the sentence.

From Mirriam-Webster AS From Mirriam-Webster THAT

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