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There are two ways of negating a modal sentence:

A) negation of modality: you [need not] go there

B) negation of proposition: you must [not go there]

With deontic modality we can either deny a permission to do something:

(1) You [may not] stay with us

or give a permission not to do something:

(2) You may [not stay with us]

Example (2) is not an idiomatic way to express propositional negation. How do you do it?

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  • "You may not stay with us" is dependent on context. It is absolutely idiomatic. You missed this meaning of the modal: He may not stay with us. He may stay at a hotel.
    – Lambie
    Commented Sep 7, 2020 at 18:13

2 Answers 2

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It's not normally used because it's easily confused with the denial of permission, the more usual and less confusing thing to say would be

"You don't have to stay with us" with emphasis on "have".

However in a suitable context and in speech rather than written text it is possible to use "You may not stay with us" to mean that staying with them is optional but make the meaning clear by changing the emphasis and timing of the statement. In that case you would say.

"You may (pause) not stay with us"

This is quite subtle, though, and "You don't have to stay with us" or "You don't have to stay with us if you'd rather not" would be less likely to be misinterpreted.

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  • Would it be natural to use "may nót" if it occurs in the middle of conversation? - 3:15. Time to go. - May I not go? - okay, you may not go, Jacob. The thing is, "have to" doesn't express this idea of permission; if Jacob asks: "do I have to go?" he does't ask for the permission not to go. Is there a way to ask for such a permission in English?
    – Vsevolod IV
    Commented Nov 24, 2019 at 14:48
  • @VsevolodIV If someone says "Do I have to go?" they are asking whether going is compulsory or optional for them. In fact the normal interpretation would be that they are asking for permission not to go. "May I not go" is grammatically correct and means exactly what you say but it now sounds dated and many native speakers might not recognise what was being asked even though they would, almost certainly, recognise the opposite question "May I go?"
    – BoldBen
    Commented Nov 25, 2019 at 16:47
  • @VsevolodIV A common alternative is to use "Can" as an alternative to "May". "Can", of course, literally means "Be able" but is frequently used to mean "May". This means that "Can I drive that car ?" could mean either "Do I have the skill to drive that car?" or "Do I have permission to drive that car?". Sorry but colloquial English is like that.
    – BoldBen
    Commented Nov 25, 2019 at 16:55
  • This is totally dependent on context. People don't go around saying to themselves: I won't use "He may not stay there" because it might mean something else. That is just silly, afaic.
    – Lambie
    Commented Sep 7, 2020 at 18:25
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Conversationally speaking, this is quite clear:

Denial of permission

  • Mum, may I go to the movies this afternoon?

  • No, Johnny, you may not.

may as Possibility:

  • Person 1: John may not stay with us next week.
  • Person 2: Oh? Is that right?
  • Person 1: Yes, that's right. He may stay at a hotel.

Denial of permission again:

  • Person 1: John may not stay with us next week.
  • Person 2: Oh? Is that right?
  • Person 1: Yes, I have already told him he may not stay here. He has to go somewhere else.

The contexts make clear what is meant.

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  • It is much clearer, and I think more common, to use "John might not stay with us" in your second example. This avoids the ambiguity of "may."
    – randomhead
    Commented Nov 13, 2021 at 14:28
  • @randomhead "might" not is not denial of permission in 2. "may not" is. "Mary, I am telling you that you may not stay here but you may [I'm allowing it] stay in hotel.
    – Lambie
    Commented Nov 13, 2021 at 15:19
  • You're talking about your last example. I was talking about the second one.
    – randomhead
    Commented Nov 13, 2021 at 15:27
  • @randomhead No, I am not: Person 1: John may not stay with us next week. [He doesn't have permission to stay with us.] He may stay at a hotel. [He has permission to stay at a hotel]. "might not" is not a denial of permission. "You may not have tea now." "You may have it at 6 o'clock like everyone else".
    – Lambie
    Commented Nov 13, 2021 at 15:30
  • ...in that case "may" is not being used as a possibility, which you said it was in the heading.
    – randomhead
    Commented Nov 13, 2021 at 15:39

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