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I found this sentence in a grammar book:

A number of people have tried to find the treasure, but they have all failed.

Can Simple Past be used in the second clause?

A number of people have tried to find the treasure, but they all failed.

If it's possible, then what's the difference between these two sentences?

I'm asking because I the verb "fail" is confusing. If you fail, then you fail and that's it! I see it as a complete action. The first sentence gives me a feeling that many people will keep finding this treasure and will continue to fail.

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    But if the treasure has not been found, people can keep on failing in the future. It's not a complete action. On the other hand, it seems correct that both verbs share the same tense.
    – RubioRic
    Commented Jun 14, 2018 at 7:18
  • Yeah. I agree. But meaning-wise, since the sentence is talking about "a number of people," I think what they did is clearly identified here, and, as I perceive it, what they did is narrated or can possibly be narrated here (they failed in the past), so that's why I'm asking whether simple past can be used here and if possible, what kind of change in meaning it brings about.
    – lans
    Commented Jun 14, 2018 at 8:14
  • The difference is in emphasis: while the present perfect talks about an acquired state in the present (namely, having failed to find the treasure), the past simple focuses on the past events; i.e., we're thinking about them failing in the past.
    – user3395
    Commented Jun 14, 2018 at 9:40
  • I suppose you're right in saying that the present perfect one reads as foretokening (hey, I recently learned that word – sorry) future failures, but that only arises from ambiguity implied by the past simple (i.e., in the very next sentence you might introduce your main character that'll be the first to've tried and succeeded).
    – user3395
    Commented Jun 14, 2018 at 9:47

1 Answer 1

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Yes. The perfect form implies the consequence lasts and is active currently. The simple past doesn't imply that (although doesn't forbid).

A number of people have tried to find the treasure, but they have all have failed. The treasure still lies buried somewhere there.

A number of people have tried to find the treasure, but they all failed. Finally, a team of archaeologists with an underground radar came five years ago, and they found it. It's currently on display in the town museum.

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  • Why've you explicitly stricken through the have there? Do you find the latter use of the past simple (in the same sentence) as creating some sort of incongruity/discord? (I'm not a native speaker of English (and hence I'm "not to be trusted"), but to me both versions parse fine, although the one with the present perfect followed by the past simple does require a little effort.)
    – user3395
    Commented Jun 14, 2018 at 13:35
  • @userr2684291: for the same reason, why 'failed' has no 'have'. There is no specific consequence to their tries, no effect lasting until now, so the 'have' there serves no purpose... unless there is some consequence I'm not aware of.
    – SF.
    Commented Jun 14, 2018 at 13:53
  • Note, I could have written: archaeologists with an underground radar came five years ago, and they have found it. The treasure being on display is the consequence.
    – SF.
    Commented Jun 14, 2018 at 13:55
  • But you're obviously talking about independent events, so the reasoning doesn't apply. (Just because there's no consequence to one doesn't mean the same for the other or vice versa.)
    – user3395
    Commented Jun 14, 2018 at 14:00
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    @userr2684291: You as the author decide on the emphasis - what is the consequence. "I have built a house, that makes me an experienced house builder." (the house has been swept in a tsunami wave, but it was a good house and I have kept the experience.) If you don't want to emphasize any consequence, use simple past.
    – SF.
    Commented Jun 14, 2018 at 14:44

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